Putting empathy at the core of benefit choices.

James Story:
Hi everyone, and welcome to For Your Benefits. I’m James Story, the chief strategy officer at SentryHealth. In this podcast, our goal is to help benefits advisors, HR teams, and other stakeholders stay on the cutting edge of what’s happening in the world of employee health benefits.

Today, we’re excited to be chatting with Ben Connor, the president and CEO of Connor Insurance. Ben was recognized by BenefitsPRO as a finalist for the 2020 Broker of the Year Award, and in 2019 by Employee Benefits Advisor as a rising star in advising, which are both national awards programs for advisors who are making a difference in benefits and benefit consulting. Congrats, Ben. We’re excited to have you with us. Thanks for joining us today.

Ben Conner:
Thanks for having me. Ben Connor, president and CEO of Connor Insurance, which is a family business. It was probably easy to tell, but it was founded by my grandfather a really long time ago in 1949. So we’re located in Indianapolis, Indiana. So I’ve lived here my whole life outside of going to college at Indiana Wesleyan University in Marion, Indiana.

Why does empathy play such a key role in employee benefits?

James Story:
Well, let’s jump right in. So today in this episode, Ben and I want to discuss why it’s key to put empathy at the core of benefit choices, and why Ben believes that it should be starting by prioritizing compassion in leadership and leadership style.

Ben Conner:
I think the reason empathy has been, from my perspective, a central element of benefits is because I feel like we’ve forgotten who we’re serving, and so we have to talk about that because employers are employed benefit programs to enhance the compensation offering and the value that they’re delivering to workers coming to their organizations. And I think somewhere along the lines we’ve taken our eye off the ball and we’ve forgotten about the purpose of that. And quite frankly, I think we forgot about it for a little while also in advising to talk about maybe the latest global trends or talking about avoiding cost increases or some of those things that are pretty common in the space. When you get caught up in that, you forget why we’re doing this and maybe how to rethink about the delivery of employee benefits.

James Story:
It’s interesting you say that, because I know in my own journey I feel like we’ve made so much progress as it relates to understanding people through data, but are we really understanding people is what I ask often. We’ve been looking at people as disease states frequently in this space versus looking at them, okay, there’s a lifestyle and there’s a human behind this disease state. And so I tend to believe that empathy, it wasn’t intentionally left behind, but maybe it got left behind as we got more aware of other components of what’s going on in people’s health within a population.

Ben Conner:
Yeah. And I think we talked about empathy, and actually you said a word I think is pretty key earlier is that the term of compassion, because when you look at some of these decisions that are made in the boardroom, quite honestly, if we’re being real and we’re following definitions, there could be a C-suite leader that can’t have empathy for one of their workers because they’ve never been in their shoes, or if I haven’t gone through that circumstance, or if I’ve never done this. I can’t have empathy for that because I don’t know what it’s like. So that’s where the term compassion comes in and really trying to figure out how do we care for people. Empathy or compassion or otherwise, I guess it doesn’t really matter, but how do we put ourselves in a position where we’re really thinking about serving our workforce really well and setting them up for success?

James Story:
That’s well stated. I love that comparison we’ve drawn between a boardroom and benefits decisions being made in this environment where the executives tend to have familiarity with things differently than what the folks that are buying the resources for. I think you made a comment somewhere along the way in some of the materials I looked at over here talking about we’re spending millions and really billions of dollars nationally and folks aren’t often seeing these benefit resources as an actual benefit, which I totally align with. It’s just it’s fascinating to me how many bells and whistles, shiny objects employers have been buying over the years that basically go unused because of confusion, or because a lack of understanding, because of lack of maybe empathy as it relates to those employees.

Why should benefit decisions reflect a company’s culture?

James Story:
I want to switch gears a little bit and talk because this kind of goes hand in hand with company culture, and employees today, especially the new generation workforce or what everything we’re reading, expect that culture isn’t just writing on a wall. They’re now expecting, as they should, leaders that create these cultures to carry it over into everything they do in the C-suite, from organizational health to compensation benefit strategy. I’d say that based on recent discussions we’ve been featured in and you’ve been featured in, we believe having a healthy culture in an organization is key, and it’s key from a leader all the way down to the full design of business. Talk to me a little bit about why and how maybe even should benefit decisions reflect a company’s culture. Give us maybe some examples of that you’ve had with your clients.

Ben Conner:
Sure. So in the book that our network published, Life & Death Decisions in the C-Suite, we kind of go into this, about the idea of mission-driven benefits and connecting a benefits strategy to the overall culture of the organization. And it’s the analogy of maybe your own personal home and when having guests over, if you guys are like me, maybe you’re not, but we-

James Story:
We’re super social, Ben. So we always have-

Ben Conner:
We clean like crazy and we try to make it so that our house is super clean, but there’s always those few items that we’re like, “Oh man. Throw that in that closet,” or, “Make sure no one goes into that kid’s room,” or there’s the junk drawer or some closet or room that you’re like, “Hey we’re going to stuff things in here, hopefully no one goes in there,” and that sort of thing. And the reason I relate that to culture is that’s exactly what employers do, and we’re very strategic of how we clean our house and how we present ourselves and that sort of thing. But the challenge is that junk drawer or that kid’s room or that closet, that’s the employee benefit program. It’s like, “Look at all these cool things we’re doing, but don’t look at this because we’re hamstrung by money,” or whatever the constraint or the perceived constraint is. That’s not allowed the benefit program to follow the rest of the strategy, and I don’t think it needs to be that way. In fact, we’ve proven time and time again that it doesn’t.

So just a few things of maybe tips or so, let’s talk about the main thing. So when employees are purchasing or they’re purchasing or they’re making their elections of what they want from an employee benefit program, they look at just a couple things. Actually, they probably just look at one thing. “How much is coming out of my check? How much is this going to cost me, because I want to pay as little as basically possible because I need the other money to pay for all my other living expenses.” So obviously that’s one thing to look at. But a lot of the things that we’re doing even now, which seems really simple, but you got to be thoughtful is if someone is making benefit choices by that lone reason, what plan are they likely selecting into? And is that plan, does that match their financial need?

So for example, we go into a lot of organizations with lower wage earners that have high deductible health plans, which high deductible health plans can be a good thing for the right people, but if we have someone that is just looking for the lowest cost item and that happens to be a high deductible health plan with no copays or whatever with a $5,000 deductible, is that really serving that employee well? And a couple questions to ask is, can they afford to take a sick child to the doctor, and can they afford to pay for a mid-level prescription drug? And if the answer is no, then I would say that we’re setting up that employee for failure, where I guess if it’s on the medical side of things, they can at least have the service and fight for the payment on the back end. But if it’s a medication that they need, that’s a point of time sale, so they can’t even fill the medication. They have to forgo that.

And what type of ramification does that create down the line that could really cost the employer? Forget that. That is just not serving their employees well. That impacts them. It could impact their family. It could impact their ability to work. It could impact all these different things just simply because of the plan structure and how we price that for what they’re ultimately going to choose.

James Story:
Yeah, I mean you bring up a good point around being aware of employees’ circumstances beyond just delivering a benefit. And I sometimes wonder if cultures got a little skewed at one point because benefits were table stakes or became table stakes across many industries, but were they just being offered for the sake of saying, “We offer something,” versus actually taking great care of the employees? I’d be interested how you respond to this, but a lot of today’s new generation of employee, especially, seems to be paying a lot of attention to, “Is this just a benefit that you stuck in a closet but you just had to offer it, or are you really offering this benefit with good intent or intent to help me thrive?” How would you respond to that?

Ben Conner:
Yeah. I mean, I think the landscape of the employer/employee relationship is changing. A decade ago or a couple decades ago it was, “Hey, do what you’re told because they’re paying you and that’s the way that this rolls,” and that’s changed. The worker, the employee has options, especially in an environment where we can work… If you live in Indiana and you get approached by a California organization that allows you to work remotely, there you go. The game has totally changed. So I think instead of that environment, employees are asking why about a lot of things, and rightfully so, like, “Why are we doing things this way? Why is it set up that way?” And so from that perspective, we have to have a reason or a strategy of why we’re doing what they’re doing.

And ultimately, I think it creates a really good opportunity for those entities that are thinking this way and are doing some of the hard things that are saying, “You know what? We do need to address our why in the employee benefits realm,” that they can tell that story and create confidence in their employees and in their workers that they’re really looking out for their best interest. And ultimately, if you’re partnering with an employer as an employee, that’s what you want to hear is, “Why have you done things this way? Have you thought about that? Do you care about me?” And that’s why workers today are choosing who their employer is based on if they care about them.

What companies have done to address company culture in their benefits packages?

James Story:
It’s been interesting for us. So, before COVID even, we’re a hundred percent remote-enabled workforce here at SentryHealth. We’ve got people in 43 US states. And what’s really interesting to me as things have shifted, and something that I’m actually extremely passionate about, is organizational health and alignment, from the why of why we’re in business all the way to the way we care for our team. But it’s been really interesting in this new world of remote workforce on how people need to be cared for and connected to the company both through relationships with management, also with the benefits that are being provided to those employees. Do you have any examples of companies, whether you can say the names or not, just some stories around companies that are clients of yours or that you just admire that you think are just doing a phenomenal job of connecting that why and the empathetic approach to care with the way they deliver or provide benefit resources for their employees?

Ben Conner:
I got a couple, but one that comes to mind is there’s a large long-term care organization in the state of Indiana, and one of the benefits that they’ve rolled out since the pandemic is workplace chaplains. So from the mental health component of providing people on site that are able to talk through and walk through life with people that they might not have that support in their personal lives, or sometimes it’s nicer to have a trusted stranger that you can unload on versus someone you know really well. But the idea that this employer, the owners are Christians and they saw that as an opportunity to support their employees in a way that is authentic from their perspective. And again, they don’t have to be a Christian to use a chaplain by any stretch of the imagination, but it’s another outlet to have conversations with people. So I thought that was really neat, and quite honestly, that’s something that we’ve deployed as well internally from our organization is a workplace chaplain service to support our employees with whatever they want to talk about, and doesn’t matter if they’re a Christian or not.

James Story:
It’s interesting you share that. So we have about 300 employers across the US that we serve today, and actually I think we’re just over 300 now. But something that has been key I think to some of the care resources we are delivering at Sentry has been a heavy, heavy emphasis on lifestyle and behavioral health, inclusive of mental health resources. I’ve been fascinated in my role to look at the data around when a chaplain or someone in the mental health who’s just extending empathy, quite frankly, and a listening ear, how that affects the other disease states and the other things we’re always trying to solve for both in healthcare benefits but also in things like employee turnover, job satisfaction, sense of joy.

There’s really some fascinating data that’s been coming out, especially post-COVID on the impact of things like chaplains or things like, I would say, good integrated mental health, not just commoditized to mental health, but mental health that’s more like a chaplain or more like a consistent brand or relationship. So I’m glad to hear you bring that up or surface that piece, and in fact, I think companies who aren’t contemplating either chaplain services or some form of good mental health resource are certainly behind the eight ball on where the market appears to be going.

Ben Conner:
Well, and I think from our perspective for our company, the owners of our company are Christians and we like to lead based on our faith. It, again, doesn’t mean that people have to be Christians or anything like that, it’s just how we lead and how we serve our workforce is on that Judeo-Christian worldview. And to be able to add cultural elements that’s an employee benefit that allows everything to be consistent creates a consistency within our organization that is really powerful, really important. And I think every employer has that story. Every employer has a carefully curated culture, say that five times fast, where they know where they’re going, they know where they’re headed, they know their core values, and we simply, as advisors, I believe we need to understand that and unlock that within an employee benefit program.

I think that we’ve failed employers on that in the past. It’s been the analogy of the frog in the boiling water. The temperature has just been slowly turned up over time, and then we get to $5,000 deductibles with incredibly expensive plans. It’s just gotten there over time. That wasn’t anything that’s immediate, but it’s our job to go back to the roots and unlock what this was all about. And you have to know the employer and what they’re trying to do and where they’re going to do that.

Benefit advisors support their clients in ensuring they consider culture in their benefits packages

James Story:
So talk about that a little bit. Benefit advisors are really, I think, shifting maybe instead of just being straight brokers, which was a tendency probably five, 10 years ago, need to be considering culture within the benefits package. How do you see that today in actual action versus what’s happened in the past? How do you as an advisor integrate the culture conversation into those benefit package decisions or those benefit decisions?

Ben Conner:
Yeah, I mean it’s our job to create the strategy around that. So I think from a benefit consultant environment the stakes are getting higher and higher. I think there have been instances along the course of time, I’ve been in this industry for 16 years, so early on I saw the ACA roll-out, and everyone said, “Oh my gosh, this raises the stakes of how this is going to happen.” And people had to learn and then adjust and translate, really, what was going on in the employer world. I think we’re going through that same thing again, and it just creates an environment that, in my opinion, for the stereotype of an insurance agent renewing something and hitting the golf course. I think those days are coming to an end to some extent because you have to be a student of the game. You have to be able to learn the strategy of what is happening in the healthcare environment, what’s happening in the insurance environment.

Those aren’t the same thing, so you have to understand what’s going on in both, and then you have to learn your employer and you really have to take all of those ingredients and help deliver a solution in partnership with the employer that is best in class. And that is not easy to do. It’s going to make the stakes higher.

Can you reconcile the cost of employee benefits and show empathy?

James Story:
Consultants like yourself are typically how we get introduced to groups, but there’s without question a tendency for us to be working more closely with consultants who are thinking beyond brokering the product and showing up on the golf course the next day, but who are really being intentional about, okay, how do you deliver care, empathy, culture aligned in the resources brought to the table. Speaking of which, these things are really expensive. All employee benefits cost companies lots and lots of money. Typically they’re the second line item next to employees. Talk to me a little bit about how do you show empathy while also managing the cost, or is that something that people can effectively do?

Ben Conner:
I think that’s some of the limiting factors of when and how decisions are made. From our perspective, at our firm, we have a healthcare spectrum which literally lines out our strategies and how we’re going to navigate an employer over a multi-year time period. And we walk through those and build a custom plan to not only what is that culture mix, but what is affordable and how do we achieve our goals. And the reality is that we’re not going to get something new from doing the same thing over and over again. That’s the definition of insanity. So, we have to be willing to do things a little bit differently to get a little bit of a different result, but we have to have a plan for when we get that different result of what we’re going to do with that. So, we talk about, “Hey, if we do X, Y, or Z, we can save a certain amount of money, both for the employer and the employee.” But when we do that just to stuff in the bottom line and have a better, even a margin isn’t necessarily…

I mean, some companies probably, I guess, would need that, but that’s not the goal. The goal is to say, “If we save a hundred grand, what’s the best redeployment of those dollars to enhance the experience, to enhance that compensation offer for your employee?” So really to create that vision is really important, and to show the step by step of how to get there, because likely you can’t do everything at once. I personally believe employees can’t handle that much change at once, because it’s something they already don’t understand anyway. So, to bring them along and educate them along the way is really important, and that takes time and attention.

Advice for HR leaders: Ensure empathy and culture when making benefits decisions.

James Story:
As you think of our audience, and primarily HR leaders and other advisors, what advice would you give to HR leaders in particular as they’re planning and making benefits decisions for the future? How can they best be sure they’re considering empathy and culture as part of those benefits decisions?

Ben Conner:
And quite frankly, I have compassion for HR individuals because I feel like they’ve been tasked with a really hard job of managing a process that seems unmanageable with the healthcare and employee benefits. So they try their best to protect their workforce, and I think that they have a lot of empathy for the team that they serve. So I think that they’re already in a really good spot, and actually I think they’re in a really powerful seat to make change. If I were going to give HR leaders some advice is to move on courageously, because I think that’s the hardest thing is to make some of these decisions because there can be disruption with decisions.

But I think to build a plan and to be courageous in that plan, to know that what your ultimate objectives are, you should have that when you’re walking through a benefits transformation process is you should have an objective, “This is what we want to solve for. This is what we want to accomplish,” and you got to keep the main thing, the main thing. So build that plan, adjust as needed, but just be courageous in taking the next right step.

James Story:
I love that, especially about building that plan and adjust what’s needed. There’s a great client that we’ve worked for in the fast food industry, they always bounce everything off of their culture and mission. One of the key team members that we worked with said their executive committee, when making those final benefits decisions, the final question they always ask, no matter what budget decision it is, “Is this the right thing to do and does it align with our culture?” And so I just think it’s such a great way to check yourself as an HR team, or even for HR teams maybe to challenge their leadership. Even though they’re bringing numbers to the table, they got to challenge their leadership on, “Does this match with who we are as a company, or should we find the money elsewhere to make sure that we’re matching with who we are as a company?”

How can benefit advisors support their clients in ensuring they consider empathy and culture in their benefits packages?

James Story:
Let me flip it a little bit. So for other advisors, people like yourself, what advice would you give that audience on how to ensure empathy and culture are key in making these benefit decisions with their clients?

Ben Conner:
I think we just need to spend the extra time to get to know employers, to get to understand the workforce, and really get outside of the insurance norm that we’ve been accustomed to over the last decade or so, actually maybe two decades, and really rethink how we need to do our job. In fact, I think the two questions that you just asked would be a pretty good place to start. “Is this the right thing to do and does this match up with our core values?” Seems to be two pretty simple questions, but I think if we bring those questions up time and time again, I think we’re going to end up in a good spot. Granted, I know that we get faced with decisions in our field that aren’t great decisions. We get put in bad spots sometimes and we have to navigate through that, but I think that as long as we build out a why we’re doing this and have a strategy to how we do our work, that’s how you get through the roller coasters.

And even, I guess from my perspective, when we work with our customers, we always talk about not overreacting, because when you overreact, you make bad decisions. When you overreact, employees get punished with premium increases. When you overreact and do these things, again, we’re not keeping our end objectives in mind. So we’ve really gotten to a good place over the last several years from our strategic planning process. And so, again, I would encourage advisors to really think in those terms.

James Story:
I love that Ben. I tell our team, and have for years, is when we’re playing defense, we forget how to move the ball forward. And so I think overreacting, to your point, is typically a defense mechanism. It may solve the problem short-term, or at least for a boardroom, but it doesn’t actually solve the long-term component or the strategy for what happens next year or the following year. How did we negatively impact our team, even though we saved a little money? How did we negatively impact people? And so I’m glad you bring that up.

Ben Conner:
Well, it’s really cool to see that in action. We have a manufacturer we work with, they had some claims that are popping up, and we’re working through how to address those and make sure that we’re handling that appropriately, but it’s obviously increasing what our budget forecast is for the coming year. And it was a beautiful process where we got to see that manufacturer, that leadership saying they understand what’s going on. So they’re looking at, “Hey, we’re not going to pass this huge budget increase down to our people, because we know how this thing works and we know what our strategy is, so we’re just going to navigate this with resolve.” And it was really cool to see. So we’re doing some things from the supply chain side to manage those expenses. They’re not going to penalize their employees in an overreaction, and we’re working through that. So just to see that, actually see it click within the employer’s mind and to see confidence in the process, it’s really incredible to see.

What’s one change to make a big impact on a problem that the healthcare system currently has?

James Story:
So as we start to wrap up here today, another couple of questions and then I want to do some rapid-fire questions at you. But I want to briefly talk about how our current healthcare system is operating. And we have all these leaders, you being one, who gets an opportunity and is blessed to actually impact a tremendous amount of lives. But these folks who are in these right seats to make changes or to influence change, name one of the biggest ways you believe we can make an impact, both an empathetic impact on people’s lives, but also on this massive healthcare problem and the cost of care. Give us some of your insights on what is one thing we can start to try to do as leaders, as influencers, to influence the way we impact lives through empathy and cost of care at the same time.

Ben Conner:
Yeah. So at the Health Rosetta conference a couple months ago, one of the things I mentioned from an influence perspective is to get involved. So I think from an advisor perspective, even an employer perspective, to get involved on the legislative side of things with the US congress people and even state and local governments. I think it’s really important and powerful to have influence in that environment for change purposes. In that vein, I think investing in primary care is a way that we can really start to see healthcare change, is by quality primary care where people are actually getting sound counsel from a physician rather than just the churn and burn in the normal system. Those are a few ways in which I think it’s opportunity to make change. Another thing I think advisors need to keep in mind is health insurance and healthcare are separate. Those are not the same things, so let’s try not to make those the same things. I think in the future we’re really going to have to keep that in mind.

As the government leans in and tries to get more involved in health insurance, we need to find our value in how are we influencing healthcare. So I think that’s really important in the future.

James Story:
So well said, Ben. I tell people frequently that today’s insurance is really the safety net, but as an employer, if you really want to show care, the current system isn’t built to deliver that. It’s a totally reactive system, and that’s what insurance was originally built for in the first place. But as an employer to deliver care, I love that you spotlighted that’s different than just health insurance. Which I think that’s probably an education process that advisors and folks in your position can really have an influence on helping, not necessarily the HR maybe, but very likely the C-suite that the HR is reporting to. Sometimes they see it all as one. I’m glad you bring that up. I love also that you brought up legislative, because the legislature, the federal government and state governments, have a tremendous amount of say in what happens in our healthcare system.

There are great outlets like the American Benefits Council that I’ll give a little quick plug for that I’ve been on their board for the last probably five or so years. Great influencer, great educator of policy makers on how their decisions are affecting downstream the whole industry, both employers and the employee. And so yeah, I’m right there with you. I would highly promote that we all get involved on the legislative side, because I don’t think it’s ill intended that bad decisions are made. I think that there’s just a lack of awareness on the rippling effect that some of those decisions can sometimes have.

Ben Conner:
No, absolutely.

More about Ben Conner

James Story:
Well I thank you for that. I got a couple just quick questions to learn more about you. So first we’ll start here. What is your favorite business book? And you can’t say the one you co-authored, but you can still promote it if you want.

Ben Conner:
Oh gosh. I like Start with Why by Simon Sinek. That was a good one. E-myth was also one I really enjoyed, and I’m drawing a blank, but I think obviously getting invested in reading and that sort of thing is really important.

James Story:
Favorite thing to do with your kids and family.

Ben Conner:
Oh, I like being outside with them and playing, swimming in the pool. I also like coaching their sports teams. We just got into that. My oldest daughter, she’s only five, but I coached her a little five year old team, so that was a lot of fun, just seeing them learn and grow.

James Story:
As a dad, my youngest is five, and the entertainment value starts to come around then.

Ben Conner:
Oh yeah.

James Story:
All right. Favorite vacation spot.

Ben Conner:
Definitely forces you to put the competitive side away.

James Story:
You have to put that away.

Ben Conner:
Think about the kids just having fun and inching forward and learning the game, right?

James Story:
A hundred percent. Favorite vacation spot.

Ben Conner:
My favorite place I’ve ever gone is Edinburgh, Scotland. Also, Jerusalem, Israel. But my wife and I, we really like going to Florida. Obviously, our thoughts are with Southwest Florida. We love that area and sad that what’s going on there recently.

James Story:
Last, what’s your favorite holiday?

Ben Conner:
Christmas.

James Story:
Oh, there you go. Well, Ben, this has been a lot of fun. Before we end here, tell us how people can get in touch with you.

Ben Conner:
Yeah, I think the best way is to get in touch with me on LinkedIn, just a connection or shoot me a message is great. So that’s the best way.

James Story:
Excellent. Well, thanks, Ben Connor, everybody. An absolute rockstar in the employee benefit space, has created certainly a national reputation, leads with empathy and a heavy influence on how culture connects with benefits.

So this wraps up today’s episode of For Your Benefits. We hope you’ve enjoyed our conversation with Ben. If you like what you heard or want to learn more, please subscribe to our podcast. Feel free to reach out to Ben or me on LinkedIn, and we’ll continue to keep you updated on what’s happening around the world of employee benefits. Again, thank you all for joining us today. Hope you have a great rest of the week.